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	<title>Comments on: Electric Cars Are Coming&#8230;For You!</title>
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	<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2011/06/13/electric-cars-are-coming-for-you/</link>
	<description>Curious Georges in a conversation with Seattle</description>
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		<title>By: Michael van Baker</title>
		<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2011/06/13/electric-cars-are-coming-for-you/#comment-4642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael van Baker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesunbreak.com/?p=874794#comment-4642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right about the limited production (which was a problem for Tesla, too, despite the price point). 

I was using 30mpg, on the theory that if you were willing to buy an electric, you probably weren&#039;t still driving a gas sucker. Your 20mpg probably more accurately reflects the full market. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right about the limited production (which was a problem for Tesla, too, despite the price point). </p>
<p>I was using 30mpg, on the theory that if you were willing to buy an electric, you probably weren&#8217;t still driving a gas sucker. Your 20mpg probably more accurately reflects the full market. </p>
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		<title>By: Redmond Chad</title>
		<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2011/06/13/electric-cars-are-coming-for-you/#comment-4641</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Redmond Chad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesunbreak.com/?p=874794#comment-4641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Addressing the far-too-common coal concern:

I don&#039;t know any owners using 100% coal power; that kind of power probably only applies to about 1% of the US population.  The US average electrical mix is only about half that dirty (see a few dozen studies on that here: www.sherryboschert.com/Downloads/Emissions.pdf).  As noted, power is far cleaner in this area (there is only 1 coal plant in WA, and it&#039;s scheduled to be shut down), and it will get cleaner over time.  Plus, many owners source their own cleaner electricity: 40% of EV owners have solar panels.  I buy wind power.  EVs are a huge win, environmentally-speaking.

And as noted in the article, even if an EV was no cleaner than a Prius--so what!  That&#039;s still cleaner than other alternatives, AND it&#039;s smoother and quieter and has better low-end torque, AND refueling in your garage 98% of the time is much easier, AND it requires less maintenance, AND the fuel is just a fraction of the cost, AND the money stays local, rather than contributing to half of our trade deficit.  Our economy would be in decent shape if we weren&#039;t buying foreign oil.  And more of our soldiers would be home.  EVs are a huge win pretty much no matter how you look at it.  

Yeah they cost more; but subtract the fuel savings (electricity is $121/month less than gas using US averages for gas and electricity price and driving miles) plus maintenance savings and they are very reasonable.  Leaf and Volt each lease for $350/month; after fuel savings that&#039;s only $229/month.  There&#039;s not many new gas cars you can get for that.

And just to address the next few comments we are likely to see: No, lithium is not toxic (you are thinking of hybrid batteries), lithium is plentiful and available in many places including the US even though we don&#039;t get it there now, the batteries are not thrown away (utilities in CA are setting up a market to buy used ones; and when they are done, the batteries are recyclable), building them takes only a small fraction of their total environmental cost over time, they are not slow, unsafe or ugly, the batteries do not die after two years (unlike your laptop, the batteries are managed), EVs do not use rare earth metals (you are thinking of hybrids again), no the grid will not crash because they are plugged in at night when we have enough unused capacity for 73% of US driving...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addressing the far-too-common coal concern:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know any owners using 100% coal power; that kind of power probably only applies to about 1% of the US population.  The US average electrical mix is only about half that dirty (see a few dozen studies on that here: <a href="http://www.sherryboschert.com/Downloads/Emissions.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.sherryboschert.com/Downloads/Emissions.pdf</a>).  As noted, power is far cleaner in this area (there is only 1 coal plant in WA, and it&#8217;s scheduled to be shut down), and it will get cleaner over time.  Plus, many owners source their own cleaner electricity: 40% of EV owners have solar panels.  I buy wind power.  EVs are a huge win, environmentally-speaking.</p>
<p>And as noted in the article, even if an EV was no cleaner than a Prius&#8211;so what!  That&#8217;s still cleaner than other alternatives, AND it&#8217;s smoother and quieter and has better low-end torque, AND refueling in your garage 98% of the time is much easier, AND it requires less maintenance, AND the fuel is just a fraction of the cost, AND the money stays local, rather than contributing to half of our trade deficit.  Our economy would be in decent shape if we weren&#8217;t buying foreign oil.  And more of our soldiers would be home.  EVs are a huge win pretty much no matter how you look at it.  </p>
<p>Yeah they cost more; but subtract the fuel savings (electricity is $121/month less than gas using US averages for gas and electricity price and driving miles) plus maintenance savings and they are very reasonable.  Leaf and Volt each lease for $350/month; after fuel savings that&#8217;s only $229/month.  There&#8217;s not many new gas cars you can get for that.</p>
<p>And just to address the next few comments we are likely to see: No, lithium is not toxic (you are thinking of hybrid batteries), lithium is plentiful and available in many places including the US even though we don&#8217;t get it there now, the batteries are not thrown away (utilities in CA are setting up a market to buy used ones; and when they are done, the batteries are recyclable), building them takes only a small fraction of their total environmental cost over time, they are not slow, unsafe or ugly, the batteries do not die after two years (unlike your laptop, the batteries are managed), EVs do not use rare earth metals (you are thinking of hybrids again), no the grid will not crash because they are plugged in at night when we have enough unused capacity for 73% of US driving&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Another damn Seattle Engineer</title>
		<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2011/06/13/electric-cars-are-coming-for-you/#comment-4631</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another damn Seattle Engineer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 03:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesunbreak.com/?p=874794#comment-4631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your writeup.  It&#039;s nice to see some attention in Seattle.  There&#039;s one thing that is misleading about your article.  Limited production is limiting sales - the reason the sales are so low are because that is how many they are making.  There is a many month backlog for leafs, dealers are taking volts and marking them way up.  

Sales are only low of volts and leafs because of limited production.  Tesla sales are lower at least for a large part because they cost so much; this is not the case for volts and leafs.  

Also, I thought your cost numbers seemed a bit off.  12,000 miles a year in a 20 mpg car at 3.50 a gallon is $2100 dollars.  What MPG and annual mileage were you using for $1,400 a year?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your writeup.  It&#8217;s nice to see some attention in Seattle.  There&#8217;s one thing that is misleading about your article.  Limited production is limiting sales &#8211; the reason the sales are so low are because that is how many they are making.  There is a many month backlog for leafs, dealers are taking volts and marking them way up.  </p>
<p>Sales are only low of volts and leafs because of limited production.  Tesla sales are lower at least for a large part because they cost so much; this is not the case for volts and leafs.  </p>
<p>Also, I thought your cost numbers seemed a bit off.  12,000 miles a year in a 20 mpg car at 3.50 a gallon is $2100 dollars.  What MPG and annual mileage were you using for $1,400 a year?</p>
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