Comments on: Alain de Botton and Second-Wave Atheism in Seattle http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/20/alain-de-botton-and-second-wave-atheism-in-seattle/ Curious Georges in a conversation with Seattle Fri, 10 Oct 2014 02:30:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0 By: caseydoran http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/20/alain-de-botton-and-second-wave-atheism-in-seattle/#comment-95423 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:27:46 +0000 http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886612#comment-95423 I was nudged by quite a few friends to see if I wanted to see him speak. I refused the invitation after watching his 20-minute-long TED talk (http://www.atheistmedia.com/2012/01/alain-de-botton-atheism-20-ted.html) on the same subject.
As an atheist (who are likely a hefty majority of deBotton’s intended audience) not only do his suggestions come off as naive, but dangerous in advocating the creation of new ideological projects using religions as their model. I would’ve thought we’d have learned our lessons from the 20th century’s failed utopian projects.
Despite the stereotype that all atheists are liberal in their political persuasions, the only real correlation I can draw between atheism and politics are a pervading inclination to anti-authoritarianism. To the atheist any church, fraternity, political party, or sports team which asks for the subversion of the self for “the cause” are at the root of what is dangerous about religion (and consequently, about all “sacred cows,” both secular and sacerdotal). Suggesting the need to remedy the apparent societal crisis by reconciling atheists with believers with the formation of a church, holding erudite sermons, or creating other quasi-spiritual public rituals as a way to access some type of “wisdom,” is an appeal to submission and the surrender of rational thought.
I sense that de Botton is attempting to play the role of the ecumenical peacekeeper in the wake of the more intellectual or vitriolic attacks from other popular atheists like Dawkins (religion is biologically-driven delusion), Hitchens (religion is implausible ideological poison) or Harris (religion is a problem of conversation). His thesis seems to be derived from the idea that there is a wound that needs healing, namely finding a function for sheltered, curmudgeonly anti-social atheists in the Great Spiritual Machine so that they can be “welcomed back in the fold” of polite society.
A separate (and far messier) discussion de Botton unfurls here is the role of so-called “spiritual” experience, or the lack thereof. Indeed, there are *some* human experiences that are difficult to reconcile with a strict materialist view of reality. It is tempting for the materialist to catalogue these experiences in the same phylum as delusion, hallucination or some other type of cognitive failure. The validity of this aspect of reality, I argue, should not be downplayed or denigrated by atheists. In the same way that those who label themselves “spiritual” or “religious” practice an equally regrettable condescension in asserting that atheists must be deficient or deluded in some way because of their denial of the potential of these experiences. Undoubtedly, humans do feel things which are mysterious, those that of us that are skeptical of the existence of souls, parallel realities or transcendent beings would do well to not deny the personal (and real) nature of so-called spiritual experience in favor of an attitude which says “how can I learn more about this?”
Additionally, I find it unsettlingly to have a conversation about what “spiritual” is, as the meaning of the word has so many divergent applications (appropriated by too many provacateurs, charlatans and bscurantists) that it has moved into the neighborhood of words like “socialist,” it has been drained utterly of comprehensible meaning. I concede that de Botton has probably felt deeply spiritual when reading British poetry, I too have felt such a thing in my clearly impoverished, emotionally-stunted existence. For me, it was an unusually profound, tear-inducing, heart-swelling tsunami of emotion on watching the first episode of Carl Sagan’s “Cosmos.” But, I’m not rushing out to create The Church of Starstuff with “Sagan as Our Prophet.”
Personally, de Botton’s attempts at this kind of ideological fusion are flawed from their inception. Religion (lower case ‘r’) lies someone within the intersection of ideology and identity. Once matriculated in the individual, that these two become inseparable. Atheism is neither an ideology nor an identity, as such. Atheism is merely the lack of belief of theistic claims (as atheists enjoy satirizing this confusion that “bald is not a hair color” or “not collecting stamps is not a hobby”). Accordingly, apart from a label (a placeholder if you will), says nothing substantive about the identity of an atheist. As Sam Harris points out, we don’t have a label for “Not a Witch,” and we don’t form non-profit organizations, blogs and Facebook pages rallying around all the cause of “Not-Witchism.” The current public face of atheism is, in actuality, the work of antitheism, a related but altogether separate political and ideological platform. The confusion is understandable because the antitheists uses ‘Atheism’ as the rallying cry and, when challenged, theists resort to an oversimplified dualism to rally support. To present the label ‘atheist’ as the reverse side of dualistic theist worldview is to profoundly misunderstand the nature of epistemological structure of human belief.
In response to de Botton (and those like him): I am not broken. Please don’t try to create hymns and sermons and Super Bowl socials on behalf of my impiety. I’ve got better things to do with my Sundays.

]]> By: Michael van Baker http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/20/alain-de-botton-and-second-wave-atheism-in-seattle/#comment-93946 Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:54:04 +0000 http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886612#comment-93946 We’ll accept squirmiest! Yes, he had very little to say about the feeling of spirituality. You know, trade in the Austen for some Dostoevsky, at least.

]]> By: Katelyn http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/20/alain-de-botton-and-second-wave-atheism-in-seattle/#comment-93934 Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:25:06 +0000 http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886612#comment-93934 “squirmiest”?

]]> By: Katelyn http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/20/alain-de-botton-and-second-wave-atheism-in-seattle/#comment-93933 Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:23:58 +0000 http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886612#comment-93933 I would have found his book more convincing if he came from a religious background, I think. But he comes across like he doesn’t truly GET the emotional connection to those beliefs and rituals, and the personal meaning people make out of them. It reads like he’s making light of faith, which I don’t think he intends to do.

I really like his overall concept (that the secular world can learn a lot from religious tradition), but my other critique is that his suggestions are so far out there as to be ludicrous. An “agape restaurant” where we talk to strangers about the people we can’t forgive? I’m uncomfortable even typing about it. Some of the most squirmy moments of my life were because a church leader decided to force the group to have a collective Moment.

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