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	<title>Comments on: Op-Ed: A Rebuttal to Alain de Botton&#8217;s Second-Wave Atheism</title>
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	<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/22/op-ed-a-rebuttal-to-alain-de-bottons-second-wave-atheism/</link>
	<description>Curious Georges in a conversation with Seattle</description>
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		<title>By: TroyJMorris</title>
		<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/22/op-ed-a-rebuttal-to-alain-de-bottons-second-wave-atheism/#comment-98881</link>
		<dc:creator>TroyJMorris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886677#comment-98881</guid>
		<description>Oh, I am certainly insulted when Alain de Bottnon and others claim that I am flawed for my disbelief. 

I just want to be clear: answering &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot; is not atheism. A fresh born baby is not an atheist. Atheism is, again, not a lack of something else. That trivializes it. 

Your example of a new born baby is one that has no knowledge of theism, fits much closer to an agnostic view than an atheist view. That being said, they&#039;re not in a position to give a shit, so it&#039;s a fallacy of an argument.

Again, I do not rebut the spirit of your article and the rally against Botton&#039;s claims. I support that. I&#039;m just saying there is more, much more, to being an atheist than a void. If anything, your definition aids Botton and his ilk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I am certainly insulted when Alain de Bottnon and others claim that I am flawed for my disbelief. </p>
<p>I just want to be clear: answering &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221; is not atheism. A fresh born baby is not an atheist. Atheism is, again, not a lack of something else. That trivializes it. </p>
<p>Your example of a new born baby is one that has no knowledge of theism, fits much closer to an agnostic view than an atheist view. That being said, they&#8217;re not in a position to give a shit, so it&#8217;s a fallacy of an argument.</p>
<p>Again, I do not rebut the spirit of your article and the rally against Botton&#8217;s claims. I support that. I&#8217;m just saying there is more, much more, to being an atheist than a void. If anything, your definition aids Botton and his ilk.</p>
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		<title>By: caseydoran</title>
		<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/22/op-ed-a-rebuttal-to-alain-de-bottons-second-wave-atheism/#comment-96028</link>
		<dc:creator>caseydoran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2012 16:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886677#comment-96028</guid>
		<description>@1 Agnosticism is profession of the state of *knowledge* about theistic claims (&quot;I don&#039;t believe it can&#039;t be known that gods exist). Atheism goes to your belief in god claims (&quot;I don&#039;t believe that gods exist&quot;). As a response to your page-slapping, take a look at the Wikipedia page on Agnosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism), and read the first sentence.

I am frankly unsure how much I could insult you by being semantically unclear.

Atheism has nothing to say about magic. Either. You can absolutely be an atheist and believe that magic exists. You can be an atheist and believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. You can be an atheist and believe that people have telekinetic powers. 

Here&#039;s a better way to look at it. If someone asks you &quot;Do you believe in God?&quot; Any answer you give other than &quot;yes,&#039; including &quot;I don&#039;t know,&quot; you are an atheist. Now being an atheist doesn&#039;t necessarily entail you are on a project of perpetually aware opposition to theism.

Your assertion that &quot;disbelief&quot; is a choice, I find also misleading. Newborn babies are atheists. They do not have a belief in gods because they simply have no been expose to, comprehended or accepted claims of belief. Are newborns in a state &quot;active disbelief&quot; of theism? I think not.

Rather than being insulted when another atheist talks about the word atheism in a way that you may disagree with for purely rhetorical reasons, perhaps you should be insulted that Alain de Botton (and other ecumenicals of his ilk) want to convince the world that you are flawed and that you need to be &quot;born again&quot; in some farcical ceremony to grant you legitimacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1 Agnosticism is profession of the state of *knowledge* about theistic claims (&#8220;I don&#8217;t believe it can&#8217;t be known that gods exist). Atheism goes to your belief in god claims (&#8220;I don&#8217;t believe that gods exist&#8221;). As a response to your page-slapping, take a look at the Wikipedia page on Agnosticism (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism</a>), and read the first sentence.</p>
<p>I am frankly unsure how much I could insult you by being semantically unclear.</p>
<p>Atheism has nothing to say about magic. Either. You can absolutely be an atheist and believe that magic exists. You can be an atheist and believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. You can be an atheist and believe that people have telekinetic powers. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a better way to look at it. If someone asks you &#8220;Do you believe in God?&#8221; Any answer you give other than &#8220;yes,&#8217; including &#8220;I don&#8217;t know,&#8221; you are an atheist. Now being an atheist doesn&#8217;t necessarily entail you are on a project of perpetually aware opposition to theism.</p>
<p>Your assertion that &#8220;disbelief&#8221; is a choice, I find also misleading. Newborn babies are atheists. They do not have a belief in gods because they simply have no been expose to, comprehended or accepted claims of belief. Are newborns in a state &#8220;active disbelief&#8221; of theism? I think not.</p>
<p>Rather than being insulted when another atheist talks about the word atheism in a way that you may disagree with for purely rhetorical reasons, perhaps you should be insulted that Alain de Botton (and other ecumenicals of his ilk) want to convince the world that you are flawed and that you need to be &#8220;born again&#8221; in some farcical ceremony to grant you legitimacy.</p>
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		<title>By: Pinko</title>
		<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/22/op-ed-a-rebuttal-to-alain-de-bottons-second-wave-atheism/#comment-95541</link>
		<dc:creator>Pinko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2012 01:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886677#comment-95541</guid>
		<description>Great post.  I was initially excited by the idea of a fresh outlook on atheism and religious belief when I first heard rumblings of deBotten&#039;s latest work, but more and more, I&#039;m largely unimpressed.  what he suggests not only sound somewhat uninspired, it isn&#039;t even really a new concept.  I also find it suspect that deBotten seems to rely heavily on the premise that to be an atheist is to somehow be &#039;spiritually incomplete&#039; or whatever.  I certainly don&#039;t feel that way, and like most people, it is a bit insulting to be told that that is the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  I was initially excited by the idea of a fresh outlook on atheism and religious belief when I first heard rumblings of deBotten&#8217;s latest work, but more and more, I&#8217;m largely unimpressed.  what he suggests not only sound somewhat uninspired, it isn&#8217;t even really a new concept.  I also find it suspect that deBotten seems to rely heavily on the premise that to be an atheist is to somehow be &#8216;spiritually incomplete&#8217; or whatever.  I certainly don&#8217;t feel that way, and like most people, it is a bit insulting to be told that that is the case.</p>
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		<title>By: TroyJMorris</title>
		<link>http://thesunbreak.com/2012/03/22/op-ed-a-rebuttal-to-alain-de-bottons-second-wave-atheism/#comment-95522</link>
		<dc:creator>TroyJMorris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesunbreak.com/?p=886677#comment-95522</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not condoning de Botton&#039;s viewpoints. I staunchly disagree with him.

However, Atheism is not &lt;strong&gt;merely&lt;/strong&gt; a lack of belief of theistic claims. That&#039;s more akin to agnosticism (the great Swiss of beliefs).

Atheism is an &lt;strong&gt;active&lt;/strong&gt; disbelief in theism.

Disbelief is not simple a lack of belief. That word is unbelief. Lacking something is passive. Disbelief is active. 

Disbelief is a choice; Atheists choose to not believe that gods and magic exist. 

I agree, there is a movement in the last few decades, to create Atheism as something closer, or into, Antitheism. But don&#039;t let this fool you. The definition of Atheism is and always has been a disbelief in theism. 

As you felt from de Botton&#039;s claims that you are broken, I find it, as an Atheist, equally insulting that you think atheism is simply a lack of belief. 

If you&#039;d like: 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disbelief

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unbelief</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not condoning de Botton&#8217;s viewpoints. I staunchly disagree with him.</p>
<p>However, Atheism is not <strong>merely</strong> a lack of belief of theistic claims. That&#8217;s more akin to agnosticism (the great Swiss of beliefs).</p>
<p>Atheism is an <strong>active</strong> disbelief in theism.</p>
<p>Disbelief is not simple a lack of belief. That word is unbelief. Lacking something is passive. Disbelief is active. </p>
<p>Disbelief is a choice; Atheists choose to not believe that gods and magic exist. </p>
<p>I agree, there is a movement in the last few decades, to create Atheism as something closer, or into, Antitheism. But don&#8217;t let this fool you. The definition of Atheism is and always has been a disbelief in theism. </p>
<p>As you felt from de Botton&#8217;s claims that you are broken, I find it, as an Atheist, equally insulting that you think atheism is simply a lack of belief. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;d like: </p>
<p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist</a></p>
<p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disbelief" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disbelief</a></p>
<p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unbelief" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unbelief</a></p>
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