As the jury statement for the Grand Jury Prize for the New American Cinema Award at the Seattle International Film Festival’s awards brunch was read – “…impressive script, terrific performances, and fresh, innovative approach to storytelling were inspirational. Its provocative and darkly comic nature gave it the feel of a fable and dared to let us guess what was real and what wasn’t…” – Middle Man director Ned Crowley told me that he thought that that sounded like a description of what he wanted to accomplish with his movie, but was taken aback when it was his name and film that were called and awarded that prize.
Middle Man, which made its World Premiere at SIFF a few weeks ago, was one of the big hits of the festival. Starring “Parks & Recreation” star Jim O’Heir as an accountant who heads to Vegas in pursuit of his dream of becoming a stand-up comedian. The problem is that Lenny the accountant is not remotely funny. While on the way, he picks up a charismatic hitchhiker (named “Hitch” and played by Andrew J. West) and Hitch steers Lenny through the world of a small-town open mic on his way to Vegas stardom. The road trip was likely ill-advised, but it turns to a complete disaster when dead bodies start piling up.It was one of my very favorite films to play the festival. It is a brilliant and tense movie that combines the best parts of Fargo, The King of Comedy, and Casino.
While in town for the World Premiere at SIFF, I met up with Jim O’Heir, Ned Crowley, and Andrew J. West for an interview after the movie’s final screening of the festival. Our interview took place at the parklet outside of the Uptown Theater, and like watching Middle Man, it was an experience I can’t forget. Early in the interview, I was hit with bird droppings from above and later we were approached by a transient man who didn’t ask for money but our opinions on classical music. He was disappointed in the answers we gave.
Middle Man should start playing in theaters in the near future, hopefully in a theater near you, after generating some buzz at SIFF. It has my full endorsement.
Can I just ask how you got involved? How did the project of playing Lenny came to be and how you got …
Jim O’Heir: Well, I’m kind of blessed. It was written for me. Many, many years ago, Ned wrote it. He’s the director, and we’ve been friends for 30 something years. We’ve done comedy together forever. A lot of people write films and nothing happens. Then because of “Parks and Recreation,” I became more visible, and then other people were willing to help, producers and stuff. He called me one day and he goes, “I think we’re going to make Middle Man.” I was like, “What?” First of all, I’m way too old now, because this was … Literally, I was in my 30’s when he first showed it to me. I’m 54 now. He goes, “No, just a few changes and it can work.” I thought it through and I’m like, “Yeah, there’s really no age specific issue.” That’s how I got involved. It was written with me in mind, which is what a gift for an actor to have. I was very fortunate.
Yeah. I love this with a character that, I guess, he had this dream that I don’t think it was within his league with his comedy skills, but then …
Jim: Oh, it wasn’t in his league. It was a dream, but it was not within his skills, no. He’s terrible. I mean no comic timing. He’s writing down jokes that he’s reading on the bathroom wall, thinking that’s what’s funny. He’s probably just a big old cornball.
I compared it to people on “American Idol” when they do terrible and the parents are like, “How can they not pick them? They’re wonderful.” You’re like, “They suck,” but parents have a different perception of their children. “I think my mother told me I was funny. Okay, I believe that,” and there we go.
Like, I’ve listened to all the Abbott and Costello or Jack Benny tapes…
Jim: I know they’re funny. I can do them with the words, so I know I’m funny. Yeah.
You said that this came about many, many years ago, but how long … Once Ned told you, “We’re going to make the movie,” how long did it take from there?
Jim: Ned will be better with dates. It was at least a year probably before we started going into production. We did some early shoots. We edited the Vegas stuff. We had to cast it. Then Ned took us to Vegas, and we did some stuff there, me with Anne driving down the strip and getting married and all that kind of stuff. That’s how it was. We shot it in the desert, so it’s kind of sporadic. Then we did our Kickstarter campaign. Through the generosity of basically strangers, we raised $153,000, which is heartwarming and amazing. That with the other money, we had enough. We’re like, “We can make this movie,” so then we went into full production. I think it was end of May. We were shooting right now a year ago.
You guys put it together really fast to get this to turn around.
Jim: Ned and his editors just went at it and never stopped. Yeah.
I just think that Lenny is just one of those characters you really don’t forget. He’s just …
Jim: He’s a very sweet man who makes one terrible, terrible mistake. His mother always said never pick up a hitchhiker, he did, and it was a terrible mistake, altered everything for a lot of people. It altered it for a lot of people, but he’s a sweet guy. I don’t think he had a hurtful bone in his body.
I know your first screenings were at SIFF but it seems like audiences really responded to it. I know you won the New American Cinema Competition earlier this morning…
Ned: There was one woman who walked out, and Jim turned to me because we’ve done … We met doing sketch comedy 30 years ago. I always tell people we come out, we do our first act and sketches and stuff. Then there’d be an intermission, and we come back and half the audience will be gone because …
Jim: It was so offensive.
Ned: We’re like, if somebody doesn’t want to go, you’re not doing your job.
Jim: [Spoiler, redacted]
Ned: I heard her. She was like, “Okay.”
Jim: She went right by me. She was out. She was just, “Oh, no. I am not doing that.” Story of my life.
Andy: People were upset when everyone got killed. You could feel it. There was such an audible gasp. You could just feel the sadness.
Ned: I’m too close with it. I know everything’s coming, so I think that comes off as surprising to me because it’s just that…
Andy: It was way easier for me to just enjoy it as a movie.
Ned: You’re actually enjoying it.
Andy: Yeah.
Ned: I haven’t gone to that point yet.
Andy: I was agonizing over every little dialogue [on Friday. Sunday] I could just sit down and relax.
Jim: Oh, and enjoy it.
Andy: Today, I absolutely could.
Jim: Yeah.
Andy: It felt like a different movie. It’s bizarre how that works out.
Was that the first time that you guys have seen it then?
Jim: Today was my first time all the way through.
Ned: You hadn’t seen the added effects in this film?
Jim: No. [Ned] sent me little pieces here and there, just like T-Bird’s head, the blowup and stuff. No, today was it. It’s my first screening, yeah.
I can’t believe I saw the movie as a whole before you did.
Jim: Now that I’ve seen it, I’ll make the necessary adjustments. Ned, the letters for his name seemed very large. I don’t understand that. That would be squished down.
Ned: You started wondering why his name isn’t first.
Jim: I don’t understand why it’s not, but yeah, so I’ll deal with that kind of stuff. Yeah, the whole thing before me.
Ned, Jim talked about how you wrote the movie for him a while ago, but could you talk about how that came to be?
Ned: Yeah. It’s funny, because it was a long time ago. I abandoned it and threw it in a drawer. Really going back, we did a lot of writing and performing in Chicago. Then when Jim and my other writing partner, who played the homeless man in the trash compactor …
Jim: … trying to get rid of the body.
Ned: The three of us wrote and performed for 10 years, and then these assholes moved out to LA to make a go at it. I stayed in Chicago and realized I … I started writing screenplays to stay sane on the side, and I always thought in much bigger terms. Everything I wrote was more of a high concept money movie, a blockbuster. I did a lot of those, and then at one point, I’m like, “You know what? I got to write a low budget in case I ever do [get to make a movie].” Honestly, Pat (Cannon), who’s in the trash can, originally was conceived as Father Ricky. All of our friends were like, “Oh, we can’t book any actors to do this.” Then stuff happens in life and work, and my girls were old enough for me to maybe think about doing … It’s a Hemingway thing. Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. I’ve just been talking about it forever, and then finally I started thinking about, “Could you do it?” We met up with Roger (Petrusson) and Bill Fortney, who were producers, and I was just looking for guidance on it. I asked “Hey, do you know any small production companies who might be interested in this? We’ll have to figure out how to fund it.” They were like, “Well, we’d be interested in doing it.”
There was two years of searching. All of a sudden, boom. It happened like that. I started talking to Jim. I’m like, “I think we could actually do this. I’ll take the time off work.” I took a sabbatical, and it just started snowballing. We were like, “Well, we could actually get some talents and actors and make it work.” A lot of it was serendipity. A lot of it was luck in that … Dick Buckley made that thing look like millions of dollars, which we didn’t have. I’d never met Dick before. The guy who did the music in there, Rob Guillory, is a friend of ours, who just raised his hand and said, “I’d love to help out.” I’m like, “All right, you’re hired. I don’t even know if you can do it.” That was just sort of it.
Jim: His price was right, free. We knew he was in.
Ned: I think we did it for the right reason in that we … I did. We just said we’d like to do it as an adventure to see if we could do it and see if we can make no money look like a lot of money and see if we can get great actors to join the fray. It was a lot of fun. It’s grimy and dirty and bloody, being in the desert and hot and everything. I look back at that as just a gift. It was so fun to be with a group of like minded, spirited people. I think we’re spoiled or I’m spoiled. I don’t know how it normally is.
Jim: I do.
Ned: I ended up pulling that script out of mothballs and re-attacking it, and punching it up and adding some stuff. I think early on, Andy’s character was a little more supernatural, and I thought that was too easy. I wanted to give him a human story so it’s not like, “Okay, it’s the devil or whatever.” People can interpret it however they want.
I love the dynamic between Lenny and Hitch, the way they played off of each other so well.
Ned: They’re modern day Abbott and Costello. That’s what they are. It’s like their comedy routine.
Jim: In the sequel, [Andy’s] going to be Bernie. It’s very Weekend with Bernie, but you’re Bernie now. I just drag his dead body all over the place.
Ned: Jonah Hill has expressed interest in playing Jim’s part.
Jim: Exactly, yes.
Ned: I’ll abandon Jim in a heartbeat.
Jim: It’s all going to come down to that.
Ned: Friendship only goes so far.
Andy, can you talk about what drew you to the part of Hitch?
Jim: The money, right?
Andy: Oh, yeah. This was purely a payday.
Jim: He lives in a box.
Andy: I was scared of it, honestly, at first. I was intimidated by the script. I love the script, but I was intimidated by the character because I had never done anything like that before. That’s part of the reason why I wanted to do it, because there was just the challenge of it. It was fun. You could feel that character jump off the page when you were reading the script. I knew that if I could figure out a way to approach it and actually do it justice, then I would have a blast doing it. I always wanted to do a weird, pulpy, desert, bloody comedy.
Jim: Take that off the list. You just did that.
Andy: Something in the tradition of U Turn or Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, some of these fun buddy road movies, desert movies. There was so much that I liked about it. I had to, almost in a way, prove to myself that I can do it, and that’s part of the reason why I really wanted to get together with Ned and just show him what I would do if he were to give me the job. We had breakfast, and we talked. I think I made that pretty clear to him, that before we start, I really wanted him to just see what my approach would be with it. We got together, got together with Jim. We did some scenes, filmed it.
Jim: That night, we knew, if he was willing to, we were done looking. It was awesome, because if you don’t have your Hitch, you don’t have your film. It had to be the right actor.
Andy: I was still a little scared even the moments after we finished that because I was thinking, “All right. Well, I feel good about what we just did.” This is how I see it, but I didn’t know for sure if [everyone else feels the same way]. When Ned said, “Yeah, you’re the guy,” then that gave me the confidence I think I needed to just get on set and just …
Ned: I don’t think I said, “Yeah, you’re the guy.” I think I said, “Will you do this? Please, please.”
Jim: We have no money. We’re going to be in the desert. Would you do our movie?
Ned: All these guys, they auditioned. He was the only candidate. We talked a lot about what is this … Jon Beauregard did a great job casting.
Jim: He did a great job, yeah.
Ned: Everybody squeezed in their time in to do this, but everybody who came in to auditioned for it came in and were the evil, crazy … They were like the Joker. They were just way over the top. I’m like, “No, this guy has got to be charming. He’s got to be good looking, charming, and then he’s got a screw loose, probably like a young Brad Pitt.”
Jim: We won’t find good looking and charming.
Ned: No, but I had known him from other shows and it just happened that his character was … He just passed on “The Walking Dead,” and I was like, “That guy on ‘The Walking Dead.'” That’s when it all kind of clicked.
I think everyone really works together. You mentioned that they were like Abbott and Costello. Was that what you had in mind because of the role that Abbott and Costello played with the …
Ned: I think a little bit of … It is sort of a buddy picture, but it’s also a road picture. It’s like the Hope and Crosby or the Lewis and Martin pictures in a way. It was sort of like what would that look like in today’s brutal, crass society? Those innocent times are over. If we made a harsher version of that, what would that be like? Honestly, I didn’t know how some of the stuff would play. I have three daughters, and there’s a lot of misogynistic stuff in there that gets punched and things like that.
{Transient man approaches us in the parklet…}
Classical-music man: Excuse me, gentlemen. I have a question. In your opinion, what is the more masculine orchestral piece between Beethoven’s Fifth or Johann Sebastian Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D Minor? Which orchestral piece is more masculine?
Andy: We were just having this conversation.
I’m not the one to ask. I wouldn’t know.
Jim: Yeah, I’m not …
Classical-music man: In your opinion, between the two, the more masculine orchestral piece? D Minor or Beethoven’s Fifth?
Chris: Beethoven’s Fifth.
Classical-music man: Okay. Next.
Ned: I’m more of a Chopin.
Classical-music man: If you had to choose between the two.
I’d probably go Beethoven.
Classical-music man: Okay, Beethoven too.
Andy: Yeah, yeah. I’m falling in line. Beethoven, I think.
Classical-music man: Really? Well, you’re all wrong. All three of you. Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D Minor is the more masculine orchestral piece.
{He walks away disgusted.}
I’m so sorry. This is some interview. First I get hit with bird shit, and then, who would’ve thought we would be approached by a homeless guy asking our opinions on classical music?
Andy: Feel free to use that.
I’ll wrap this up. What’s going to happen with this movie after the screening?
Ned: I hope something happens with the movie after the screening. We didn’t really think beyond … We made this as a true adventure. We said our goal was to make something we’re really proud of with no money, make it look great. Literally, we sat and said if we can go to one festival, and it went up on a screening and we could have a beer afterwards, that would be mission accomplished. People seem to be responding to it, now what do we do? Having picked up the New American Cinema award this morning is just mind numbing. It blows us away. All of a sudden, people want to talk. Hopefully, we’ll find an audience. It was very heartening in here to feel like it does have an audience. It’s not just us who think this is funny.
I knew when I saw it a few nights ago that audiences were going to love it, except of the woman that walked out.
Jim: We love that she walked out.
Ned: She’s not from Seattle.
Of course not, we’re not claiming her. I’ll just ask, if you guys want to talk about your favorite part of the movie or anything that I forgot that you wanted people to know about, that I didn’t ask about.
Ned: Jim, what’s your favorite part of the movie? You know what? I’ll tell you one little story that was really interesting because it got … We were in there, and the scene almost didn’t happen because we just didn’t have the time for it.
Jim: The sun was coming up. We were shooting overnight.
Ned: There’s a scene outside the diner where Jim, where Lenny confronts T-Bird (Josh McDermitt) and TQ (Kelly Mantle) was there with a guitar and that whole Mexican standoff thing. We did that in one take. We set it up quickly outside. The actors really wanted to do it. The producers were really pressuring to move on, “We got to cut that. We can’t do it.” We went outside and rolled it in one magical take, and Josh was on.
Jim: It was a miracle that it worked out.
Andy: Yeah, because you’re dealing with a guy on guitar.
Ned: … all the credit, because Kelly basically … We didn’t overdub that. That scene is scored live by him playing and the actors … It’s four actors playing in perfect harmony in that one take.
Jim: Amazing. It just worked.
Ned: That’s just one of my favorite things. They got applause in there today. When that scene was over, people were applauding.
Jim: One of the favorite few seconds of the film, I realized tonight, I love (Andy’s) first appearance. The truck goes by, and there’s the silhouette, because you know it’s turning right now. We’ve gone from Lenny from being whatever he is now. Somebody’s going to go on now because what’s with this. I love that. I love that.
Andy: Yeah, you can feel it, that people’s attitude were shifting.
Jim: Yeah, yeah. I don’t know. It’s a great moment.