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posted 12/09/10 04:13 PM
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Whoa! Hold Up, Husky Stadium: A Re-rebuttal

By Michael van Baker
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Seth and I have been having an online debate over the plan to rebuild Husky Stadium, at a cost of $250 million. Here's Seth's pro view, my con, and his rebuttal. 

To recap--fairly, I hope--Seth's rebuttal, his point is that the University of Washington does not need to consider the city of Seattle's druthers when it comes to their stadium.

So the argument that it's better for the city as a whole if Qwest Field gets twice as much usage on weekends is neither here nor there. I'll accept that, with the reservation that most Husky football attendees live in and around Seattle and therefore are concerned about the city's health and welfare--if not during home games.

I know that we now accept it as status quo, but has anyone wondered what the city's cost of Montlake hosting 60,000 to 70,000 weekend visitors is? (And no, revisionists, it wasn't always thus. Husky Stadium seating has experienced significant scope creep; it began life with 30,000 seats.) 

But of course, I'll also need Seth to demonstrate to me how football meets any of a major research university's educational needs, when the money raised by football programs tends to stay exclusively within football programs. It's a dead horse of an argument, I know, but I'm not willing to concede the inch to college football "mystique." That it is enormously popular doesn't automatically mean it advances a university's mission. It's just a lot of fun. 

People have also been quick to note--though I established this in my initial post--that the UW ICA plans to raise its funds through private donations and increased prices, borne by Husky game-goers. Ergo, STFU, QED. In this, they're a little like tunnel boosters, who like to claim that the state's contingency for cost overruns rules out the question of cost overruns--but there is no Plan B if something goes terribly wrong. 

In the Husky stadium's case, the problem is that the economy already has gone terribly wrong, and yet the plan is to extract $200 million from higher prices. I don't think the UW has gone public with those exact increases. (Here, I'm happy to point you to Seth's post about how it's now cheaper to fly to Seattle for a Yankees game than attend in the new stadium, and to someone raising similar concerns to mine at Berkeley.)

I'm told the UW ICA is responsible for the debt. How is the ICA doing? Here is athletic director Scott Woodward announcing the end of their swimming teams in 2009:

We are clearly operating in a time of economic distress and we are forced to make decisions that will help us maintain long-term financial stability. The state is reducing its funding of higher education at the highest rate in the country. The increase in the cost of tuition, combined with the decreased return on the university's endowment investments, will add considerable expense to the cost of our scholarships. Since we are a self-sustaining operation with no funding assistance from the university or the state, we must find ways to reduce expenses and increase revenues in these difficult times.

So...not awash with cash reserves. What happens if revenues are off by ten percent the wrong way? Would it be fair to say that the UW is betting the existence of the whole athletics program on the new venue?

I can't claim to be a lifelong Husky fan, though I do attend games occasionally. I also go to Seahawks games. I don't know that I have a preference in stadiums, though I do find Qwest easier to get to and from. It may well be that the opportunity to play at Qwest only looks good from a certain angle, but that when you factor in practices and equipment, and other uses, the move becomes moot. But I have not found the UW Regents being particularly transparent or forthcoming about the alternatives. Nor have I seen anyone defend the amazing amount of price elasticity discovered during the most significant economic downtown since the Great Depression.

Qwest pulling double-duty may offend Bow-Down-to-Washington sensibilities, but that's before sticker shock. I'll be curious to see what happens if bleeding purple isn't enough to afford seats. 

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Tags: husky stadium, university of washington, ica, scott woodward, huskies, football
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Keep in mind
If the Huskies were to abandon Husky Stadium, there would be no nice "community space" or "high-density neighborhood" or any of these other things the anti-stadium folk spew.

What there would be is just another duplication of South Lake Union. Building after building dedicated to the Med School. And a traffic nightmare from Montlake not being able to handle the capacity (at least until the University-to-Northgate extension on Link is done in 2022.)

So, understand that the options are renovate the stadium or tear it down for hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space. It's not stadium or park. It's not stadium or dense housing and shopping. It's stadium or SLU.
Comment by dw
21 hours ago
( +1 votes)
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RE: Keep in mind
actually, no

If the abandonment were agreed to early enough, we'd actually get a decent 520 interchange that would hook up with the pending Sound Transit station. UW has been blocking any reasonable plan - as far as I can see, just to make TYEE-Friendly parking.

Can the stadium, move 520 to there, and you've got a real sense-making deal.
Comment by bilco
20 hours ago
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RE: Keep in mind
No, the university has been blocking it because E12 is the main parking lot for UWMC staff, and there's nowhere else to put them if you built the Pacific interchange option. It has nothing to do with "Tyee-friendly." It has everything to do with having a hospital at Montlake and Pacific.

If they lost E11 and half of E12 to the interchange, there would still be plenty of places to put gameday traffic. But E12 is 98% full every work day.
Comment by dw
16 hours ago
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))<>((
This series of posts is back and forth, the same piece of poop, forever.
Comment by Audrey Hendrickson
18 hours ago
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RE: ))<>((
Come on, Audrey - that's Seattle decision-making at its absolute finest!
Comment by bilco
17 hours ago
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what would dubs do?
No matter how many rational and excellent points you make (and you have made them!), it won't change make the idea of funneling a bunch of Husky fans from campus to SoDo for football games seems any less abhorrent. And I'm not even a football fan! There is nothing practical about collegiate athletics; so trying to apply reason or logic or economics to the problem is a losing battle.

But, since that's what you're after: splashy athletics may not have a place in the University's educational mission, but I wouldn't doubt that this "fun" of which you speak plays some role in many tuition-paying undergraduate's college decisions. To that end, it's to the University's advantage to allow its programs to buy themselves fancy things so that those intangibles can spill across campus on crisp autumn days.
Comment by josh
14 hours ago
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Negative Nancies
Seattle is a relatively young city with few traditions but one of them is Husky Football at Husky Stadium. It's one of two stadiums in the country where fans can take their boats to the game and one of the greatest treasures our city has in Lake Washington.

The football program also pays for all of the other college sports including the Olympic sports and all of the women's sports. In the unlikely event they would stupidly move Husky Football down to Qwest, far away from campus and generally less family-friendly, that would sink attendance and thus revenue for the whole athletic department. There would be the unintended consequence of possibly having to cut programs due to less football revenue.

Fortunately, the renovation is going to happen and there's nothing you irrational Negative Nancies can do about it.
Comment by HFNY
5 hours ago
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RE: Negative Nancies
This has to be my all-time favorite comment! At a time when the governor is considering ending Basic Health in the state because of catastrophic budget deficits, HFNY keeps their eye on the ball: you can take your boat to Husky Stadium.

For what it's worth, I have no problem with the renovation as such. My concern is whether the ICA can actually afford to do it. The Husky faithful seem very sure they can, which is fine. But then I don't think anyone has actually seen what this is going to cost them yet. So we'll see. Everything could go swimmingly.
Comment by Michael van Baker
4 hours ago
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RE: Negative Nancies
I would remind you, MvB, that the ICA money for the stadium has nothing to do with the state budget. ICA is issuing bonds and backing them with donations and sports revenue. I do not believe they're backed with full faith and credit by the state. In fact, I'd be astonished if they were, given the state's unwillingness to fund the renovation.

Basic Health comes from a combination of Medicaid and state monies that have nothing to do with ICA whatsoever. It's like bitching that they're getting rid of welfare while Paul Allen buys himself a new yacht. It sounds good, but it's a false association.

There's nothing wrong with questioning ICA's ability to afford it. (Given the experience my alma mater went through issuing bonds to build luxury boxes a few years ago, I would be very skeptical. My alma mater's athletic department is now millions in debt as a result.) But ICA is essentially a private corporation, even though it's associated with a public university. The money they bring in has zero effect on any state budgets, other than whatever tax revenue they generate from parking, concessions, and ticket sales.

And it just drives me nuts to hear these sorts of comparisons. You want to keep Basic Health? Convince the people of this state it's important enough to raise taxes for. But as we've seen, the people in this state are too stupid to think long-term.
Comment by dw
2 hours ago
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RE: Negative Nancies
I would remind you, Dylan, that I'm not saying the ICA is doing anything with public money. In fact I've repeatedly emphasized the opposite. Nor am I making the values comparison you find so odious. My point is that THERE'S A NATIONWIDE ECONOMIC CRISIS currently in progress, so it strikes me as odd that the ICA has such rosy projections for increased revenues. I'm referring specifically to the state's economic woes because they're very serious (you can honestly say that people will likely die as a result of these cuts) and in part driven by declining sales tax revenues--evidence that statewide, people are not buying as much as they used to of anything. HOWEVER! in fairness, it is possible that people will devote their middle class tax cuts to the stadium.
Comment by Michael van Baker
20 minutes ago
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